Szv.hu reload 2006 nyarán

BTW, the next big thing on the net is: Blogofractal (from the makers of the blogosphere, blogocube and blogodrome)
(xkcd.com is a funny webcomic with lots of references to natural science.)

Visszatérve az eredeti témára, megfontolásra ajánlok két db webhelyet, amelyek szerintem szóba jöhetnek egy újratöltött szv alapjaként (itt természetesen inspirációról van szó, nem lopásról, másolásról):

http://www.readers-edition.de és http://nymag.com/

Mi a véleményetek?

Now we have audiocontent, without any Yanó's pluswork. The voice is called Vicki.

The text is:
PETRI GYÖRGY: MOST ÉPPEN ITTEN

Most éppen itten nem vagyok sehol,
pedig szeretnék lenni valahol,
szerettem volna lenni, de soha
nem lehettem, es idôknek soka
pereghet el, foglyul ejtett homok,
önforgató clepsydra, senkisem
voltam, leszek, bár néhanap vagyok,
vagy lenni vélek, mint a jégcsapok,
ahogy csöpögve hűtik a Napot.

"Thanks András for your confession besides web developments and progressive ideas, a position which I was largely ignorant of considering your previous comments."
That's what I'm talking about. The question is not whether you're "progressive" or not; the question is whether you want to use this or that (state-of-the-art or not) tool in a specific context. Don't worry, it's the last time I state that (for me) obvious fact.

Thanks András for your confession besides web developments and progressive ideas, a position which I was largely ignorant of considering your previous comments.
Maybe we should have to focus to the concrete, upgraded future of the Free Variables now.
I am grateful to you concerning the first steps, we have done today, i.e. english discussion, first in-built video code, towards the completion of my wishlist.
Next:photos, pictures, graphics and podcasts and...users.
Good night.

I feel now that some fresh air is streaming into this narrow channel, fine. :)
Károly says: "More international editors - an interesting idea but should be more specific. Who do you have in mind (if anyone)?"
It was only a wish of mine, as I am a stem cell researcher and not have any professional commitment to the bölcsész-business, which is now the core of the journal, so I could not vitalize philosophy or literary people abroad in a large amount (only some other stem cell researchers). But there are people here, who can, if they want.
CEU fellows, talk to professors: the same applies here well, it's up to you guys, and I am with you behind.
Other english language users: if we can produce enough english section here, than the international users will come, but it is now the first time to try it, the other sporadic one was my ancient philosophy of technology topic. Again, there are people here, who can easily create or just share serious existing content in english, if they want.

"I could not believe that you want to become a member of such a webignorant circle."
As if I ever suggested or implied that I want or we should become a member of any webignorant circle. I thought that is clear, but now I see I must state it explicitly: webignorance of academic circles matters for us not because we ourselves want to become webignorant (how? forgetting to use del.icio.us?), but because those very circles are largely our "target group".
Making analytic philosophy and natural science and etc. attractive for people who think that a YouTube video is cool but didn't ever wanted to leave a comment on this site in a serious discussion - that's indeed an important task (note that I'm talking seriously), I just don't think that it is up to us to perform. This site and people behind it were never dedicated to or even thought of anything like that before. But hey, you can do your best, we'll be (t)here to comment and attack and (who knows?) to encourage and praise you ;)
And a last comment: please don't use arguments like: "X is up-to-date - if you are against using X in a context C, then you're reactionist antiweb close-minded etc." Maybe there are reasons for or against using X in a context C besides its being up-to-date or not.

Hehe...some sort of English speaking section could be fun indeed :) Not to mention the opportunity for szv threads to be found by anyone googling a particular topic in English. Now my wish list if I may: something facilitating LaTeX use would be nice. No, I don't want to turn the site into a mathematical-logical jamboree but it seems pretty awkward when one has to use ASCII characters instead of the nicely worked-out LaTeX symbols when writing a minimally more complex formula than ~(p -> q). It all depends, of course, on how much work is needed to make it work on the part of the web master, and I wouldn't really protest if Yano said a resounding NO to this proposal. As to blogs, well, I have one, so I don't fancy another one right now :)

Turning to Attila's proposals, I think the 'more user generated content' part is important but it's utterly beyond our power I must say. People come and write if they want - and that's it! You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink... though the site's attractiveness would be enhanced by inserting little goodies like the one above with Heidegger talking or Kripke singing the Logical Song (sort of a karaoke version of Supertramp - just kidding, of course :)). Actually, it may indeed help to attract people. On the other hand, it might not make much sense to attract serious people to a philosophy site this way. But I may be wrong of course.
More international editors - an interesting idea but should be more specific. Who do you have in mind (if anyone)?

Well, if there really was an English speaking section, or even a sub-forum, maybe the people studying analytic philosophy at the CEU would participate as well. We could talk to some professors there to help us spread the word among the students...

Thanks Yanó, as I see, Mr. Martin analyzes Mr. Karl famous sentence or am I wrong?
You mentioned me today, that we are not able to publish videos on the comment level, and now it works. That is what I call easy-to-do.
And what about audiofiles?

Nos, ténylegesen használhatjuk mi is azokat a külső eszközöket, amiket a hájpolók többsége, ezt most találtam :)

wow, András you surprised me to fulfill my first wishpoint, i.e. more texts in english language. what a progress, terrific. Thx.
I do not want to waste any other registered user's energy (except for Yano's a little bit), at least the enormous reservoir of Mr. Rónai.
I just wanted to emphasize that there are tools, which is worth to acquire and use. I was informed and it turned out that it takes not too much of Yanó's energy and time to make the site Youtube or Google Video compatible, so that we can publish short videos just by copy and paste the html code to embed the video which would be of interest here.
Who else can here, at the moment, in Hungary have the ability to popularise philosophy and science with every accessible IT-tools then the generation behind Free Variables? (In the future of course the future generations will do it.)
What else instruments should we have than the ever renewing machinery of the Web?
You said :"..it is before hype.. (sad but true) in academic circles..."
Well, umso schlimmer für der academic circles.
I could not believe that you want to become a member of such a webignorant circle.
Our startpoint must be today's capacities not yesterday's positions.
More working, less networking.

Szerény angoltudásom mián most magyarul fogok írni, elnézést ;) Azt szeretném, hogy első körben mindenki mondja el, mit szeretne - legyen az webkettőpontnullás vagy miegymás, ráérünk aztán átbeszélni mi az, amit érdemes megvalósítani. Tehát: előbb a gereblyét vegyük elő ...

on writing in English, well, we could try that.
I think you missed my point. I'm not against using whatever tools you like, and uploading content not just in text format - I'm against taking a lot of time and energy (we obviously lack) for making this site a semi- or wannabe-portal with some randomly taken web2.0-technologies.
You can already use these technologies: share something on YouTube and post here a blog entry with the link and some comments for opening a discussion. You can insert pictures using those funny html-tags and can also attach files to your blog entries. (Also as we are proving right now there's nothing that prevents us from using English language.) Don't be afraid of using existing opportunities, be a creative intellectual!
(The files of the interviews are long and of very low quality AND they're unedited. It doesn't worth many hours of editing & uploading when you can be sure that less then 10 people will d/l that.)
What is hype and what is not: in Hungary, blogs, and I also dare to say that this whole 'net thing is before hype in the mainstream media and also (sad but true) in academic circles. How many Hungarian people are out there who don't take time to freely register on szv.hu and write comments but would use our hypothetical web2.0 tools? My mildly scientific estimation is: definite 0.

Do not afraid of change András, it could be good, and could be accepted by an "alkotó értelmiségi". You know flexibility was coded into the name of Free Variables.
Podcasts: I have many Petri poems readed by me in mp3 form, and I offered it about a year ago, so I offer it once again. We had that interview with Arató for instance, recorded by your gadget, so please do not tell me, that to make some good audiocontent and publish it here is not an easy-to-do enterprise. It is 2006, not 2003.
Vlogs: I am now working on a vlog about scientific content first a short movie about mitochondria, the hidden superstars of current life sciences, and I would like to publish it on this site too, if you don't mind. Anyway, Youtube type movies are welcome in a scientific-philosophical community too and the fact that there are many rubbish things in these sort of videosites does not mean that quality content could not be constitute and distribute. In fact, I use Youtube to publish my time-lapse confocal microscopy cell movies because this is a way I can cooperate with my Cambridge colleague.
Pictures, graphics: Well as I know we had a guy, called Charlie who is our photo editor.
To use the tools we have in hand is definitely not a hype, András, podcasting could be labelled as hype one year ago, online video could be labelled as hype half a year ago, but NOT NOW, when these tools are almost, if not completely mainstream. Not to use them, well, that's out of time.

Nem értem azt a hozzáállást, hogy úgy kezelitek ezt az oldalt, mintha egy nyomtatott folyóirat lenne.

Engem zavar, hogy az aktuális folyóiratszám van a főoldalon, ami egy egy évvel ezelőtti konferencia anyaga (és speciel már olvastam).

Azon ritka alkalmakkor, amikor még idelátogatok, mindig a jobboldali hasábot kell bogarásznom a friss tartalmakért, szerintem éppen fordítva kellene, az látszódjék a főoldalon, ami friss, és oldalt legyen az, ami egy évig állandó.

Egy részét nem értem, pl. hogy hogyan, hova szeretnél több comicsot beletenni az oldalba, miről szólnának a podcastok, stb. stb.
Kívánságaid egy másik része egy egészen más oldalt vízionál, valamilyen portált, tele hype-olt és általam is használt vagy legalábbis elméletileg támogatott web2.0-s fícsörökkel, ami nagyon eltér attól, ahogy az szv el van képzelve. Nyilván lehet próbálkozni a megvalósításával, csak nem értem, hogy miért egy online "tudományos-filozófiai folyóirat"-tal kéne összekötni; illetve hogy miért éppen nekünk kéne megcsinálnunk egy Wikipedia-scientificjournal-Standpedia-mittoménmi típusú dolgot - ami szerintem egyébként legfeljebb angolul működhetne, azt is csak akkor, ha nagyon komoly informatikus- és PR-háttér áll mögötte. (Még a magyar Wiki is elég szomorúan sovánka, pedig jóval több embert mozgat, mint amennyit mi el tudnánk érni magyarul.)
A harmadik pont: nem látom az SzV körül jelenleg működő emberekben az energiát, szabadidőt és szakértelmet (pl. web2.0-s menedzselési szakértelmet), amivel ezeket meg lehetne csinálni. (Ha ez kritika, akkor önkritika is!) Vagyis nem hiszem, hogy a things in your list valóban annyira easy-to-do volnának.
(Itt bele lehetne menni egy szerkesztés vs. user-generated-content vitába, de nem hiszem, hogy érdemes)

Rónay says: "nem értem/k egyet az előttem szólóval"
This means that i., you do not agree with any point of my list, so you say no to more blogs, podcasts, international editors, et cetera...in this case please reconsider it again. the technical things in my list are easy-to-do, present state-of-the-web issues, which could make this site more popular.
ii., you do not agree with some definite point. then explain yourself.
Anyway, this forum is about your positive, affirmative wishes and dreams not your disprefences against another user's wishes.
According to Yano: Kedves fórumozók, kérek mindenkit, hogy írja meg véleményét, kívánságát az szv.hu webhely (jövőbeli):...
At least I dared to interprete it that positive way.
Try to be clear and less ironic, and more positive András, please.

Tartalmilag csak egy (de igen komolyan gondolt) felvetésem lenne, mégpedig az angol nyelv részleges bevezetése mellett tenném le a garast én is. Első lépésben a cikkek absztrakja szintjén, meg alkalmanként fórumok is lehetnének angolul, persze ha van erre hajlandóság. (Ennek várható előnyös következményeivel feltételezem mindenki tisztában van.)

A kinézeti preferenciák nyilván szubjektívek, és én nem vagyok ebben a tekintetben finnyás. A megjelenítés szempontjából Andrással értek egyet, valóban előkelőbb helyet kaphatnának az aktuális cuccok (habár azt hiszem eleve ezeket olvassák leginkább az idelátogatók, szóval a gyakorlatban nem olyan nagy probléma ez sem).

nem értem/k egyet az előttem szólóval. esetleg feltalálhatnánk a web24.2-t is. az mondjuk jó lenne, kedves János, ha tényleg több usert dizájnolnál ide nekünk.

amit én szeretnék: a főoldalon jobban látható legyen az aktuális (folyóirat)-szám mellett a dinamikusan fejlődő tartalom, úgyismint hírek-blogok, utolsó hozzászólások. esetleg két hasábba egymás mellé.

- more texts in english language
- more science, i.e. natural science
- more technology
- more applied philosophy
- more users
- more user generated content
- more blog&wiki
- more visuality, pictures, movies, graphics, comics
- more podcasts&vlogs
- more international editors
- more DIY issues